Rewrite
Artist. Originator. Audio architect. Curator. Cult-leader? However you try to define him, Kevin Abstract remains an enigma. Here, he and JPEGMAFIA cut the bullshit, talking the way they make music: no holds barred.
Kevin Abstract has never played it straight. As a teenager in Texas, he pulled Brockhampton out of internet message boards and turned it into one of the most talked-about collectives of the last decade – a rap boyband that made disruption its engine. When the group dissolved nearly three years ago, the mythology was set: the kid from forums who built a band that stormed the charts. He’d already tested life outside the group with projects like MTV1987, American Boyfriend, and Arizona Baby. But in 2024, amidst heartbreak, addiction, and a move back home to find himself, the question became how to sketch out a new blueprint for what music – and community – could look like next.
His answer is Blush. Not a band in the traditional sense, not just a solo record either, but a shape-shifting collective where the cast is always in flux: Dominic Fike, Love Spells, Danny Brown, JPEGMAFIA, full-scale production from Quadeca, and a constellation of Houston locals orbit in and out. With Blush, Abstract isn’t just out for himself; he’s building a musical Noah’s Ark, a vessel big enough to carry the next wave of misfits and visionaries with him. If Brockhampton was about detonating a boyband from the inside, Blush is about expanding the frame – building a universe that can stretch, grow, and contract. It’s “Texas Pop,” as he calls it: an homage and a soundtrack to the place he calls home.
To talk it all through, Abstract sits down with JPEGMAFIA, one of Blush’s key co-conspirators and a kindred provocateur who’s made a career out of ignoring genre’s guardrails. What follows is a conversation about two artists who share the same M.O.. “We speak the same language, and it’s a language a lot of people around us don’t understand,” JPEGMAFIA tells Kevin. “It’s like I’m speaking Spanish to you around a bunch of English motherfuckers.”
So we got out of the way and let them talk – at length, because some conversations aren’t meant to be cut short.
Kevin Abstract: Thanks for doing this!
JPEGMAFIA: No problem, man, I’m just chilling. Just got off tour. Been working non-stop. I’m in that mode – [that] part of my album where I don’t know what it sounds like yet. It’s a very vulnerable, insecure process.
KA: Is it a lot of producing right now, or vocals, or a mix of both?
J: Both. I mean, this isn’t about my shit, but the only theme I have is steroids. I’ve been watching [basketball legend] Barry Bonds’ games, [baseball star] Marc McGwire’s games…I just want to know what it looks like to be juiced. That’s the theme for everything I’m doing: just over the top.
KA: Do you think that will change your aesthetic? What about the visuals? Will you try to get big in the gym or some shit?
J: [Laughs] No, it’s not going to be literal steroids. It’s just a theme in private, to get a desired goal.
KA: You don’t have to say it yet, but do you have a title in mind?
J: No, nothing right now. Just a bunch of music and a bunch of raps, that’s it. But it’s got a lot of that D’Angelo vibe you used to play. Hm…what did you used to do? You had, like…prints in the studio or something. It was like, “If we’re gonna make a great album, we’ve got to listen to a great album.”
KA: Exactly.
J: But how are you, man? How have you been since the album dropped?
KA: I’ve been pretty happy. Happier than I was with the last album cycle. I think it’s because I’m not with Sony anymore; I’m with Virgin Records, so I have more freedom to actually reset. And I’m not living in California anymore; I’m living in Texas. I feel like my life slowed down in the way I needed it to, for me to be more creative, honestly.
J: So your mindset changed moving back to [your hometown] Texas – has everything been more relaxed?
KA: Yeah, it’s making it easier to make things.
J: That’s imperative to making music. For me, at least, I prefer to be in a good mood, because the actual work is technical and you have to sit down in the weeds of it, you know? But I was going to ask – I have a group, and the group is a group of N***** that I just know. What is Blush exactly? Is that the same thing, or is it not, like, a group?
KA: It’s the same thing, ‘cause I feel like you have a group, but your group isn’t a proper touring band, right?
J: Yeah.
KA: Exactly, that’s pretty much what Blush is. It’s been so hard to answer that question. I’m always going to be making a bunch of music with a bunch of different people, so I just decided to put a label on it. My goal was to have Brockhampton be a band, rap group, boyband, whatever. But that was supposed to be a band, whereas this is more or less just me and homies that I grew up with, that are just kinda helping me, like, figure out whatever sound I’m into at the time. And, it’s funny – the thing you said about D’Angelo listening and the prints. When we came back here, I was listening to a bunch of Zero and just, like, Texas shit. Just shit that I remember listening to as a kid. And Blush doesn’t sound like that, but there’s just this feeling in some of the melodies and the raps that remind me of that era of music.
J: Before I say what I’m going to say next, let me point out something I find interesting. Artists from Texas – all of y’all, eventually – it’s like Texas calls you back or something. All artists from Texas eventually know, “I’ve got to get my Texas shit out.” Solange did that album when she was like, “Yo, I’ve just got to get my Texas shit out.” I know artists personally from Texas who’d be like, “It’s time to go back to Texas real quick.”
KA: [Laughs] Yeah, that is interesting.
J: I’m telling you. Literally every artist I know from Texas, no matter what type of music they do, eventually they’re like, “You know what? It’s time to go back.” [Laughs] I always figured you as some kind of cult leader or something. I don’t really know.
KA: [Laughs] Is that bad?
J: [Laughs] No! To me, that’s good. Cult leaders are a good thing to me. It’s somebody who’s charismatic and has a leader quality in them – somebody that facilitates.
KA: Ah, thank you.
J: That’s somebody I’ve always seen you as. Every time I’ve seen you, you’re in that position – facilitating, or controlling everything. Even when I saw you last time, to record this verse for “NOLA” on this album, it was the same thing: you had the whole place, you and all your friends, just working shit out. So yeah, it’s interesting that you think of this as just, like, N***** you hang around with or anything like that. I’ve seen you describe it as different things, but it’s interesting hearing it from your mouth. Because, for me, you always kinda seem like the de facto leader on whatever the fuck is going on. Anytime I see you, you seem like the nucleus of shit. But the way you described it is like, “We’re just hanging out.”
KA: That’s because I feel like that’s how you get the best work. At least for me, I’m leaning into the best version of myself if it starts with friendship and love – no ego. I’ve always been obsessed with this collaborative spirit. There are people on the songs who aren’t musicians, but they’re just having fun in the studio. That’s always been my vision, I guess.
J: It’s interesting, the perspective on it. It’s funny, ’cause for me, I do it completely differently. I run my shit like a [brigade]. When I have N***** coming, I’m like, “Do this. Do that.” The roles are extremely defined. But my guys aren’t artists in the conventional way – they’re just my homies, so whatever I have them doing, whereas you’re like, “Nah, I’m not the leader, I’m just chilling. We’re all just chilling.” When I go, I’m that motherfucker: “I’m the boss, we’re at work.”
KA: Well, that happens. It depends. I start off with a chilling thing, and then I eventually start to kick people out, I guess. [Laughs] Then it becomes a sort of [brigade]. But it’s always like summer camp, which I love creatively because it helps me feel free in the studio. I’m always the last one to record. That’s just what happens.
J: There’s something I was thinking: do you think collectives, in the traditional sense, still work in hip-hop, or are they still a thing? Since [Brockhampton] stopped, did that also stop being a thing?
KA: I actually haven’t seen a hip-hop group get as big as we got since. But I think someone just has to do something new, something different – and that sounds like the hardest thing to do. It’s difficult, but I’m sure it’s possible. I think people are missing that feeling of seeing a bunch of homies making stuff together on stage, rapping their favourite songs. I think that feeling is missing. I don’t really know if it’s happening. I hope I’m not being disrespectful to anyone in hip-hop right now. But I can’t think of any group, really, honestly.
J: I agree –there’s definitely room for it, but it doesn’t happen as much anymore. The internet has changed the way we consume rap – or really, any kind of music. It’s kind of broken down the idea of regional rap, since everything feels centralised now. I don’t know exactly why, but I think the internet plays a big role. Kids today are always in collectives, working in groups. They rarely do things on their own – it’s all about doing it with friends. That feels inevitable, just because there are so many artists out there.
At the same time, our attention spans are shorter. Everyone’s just chasing whatever the internet is paying attention to at the moment.
KA: Does that affect the way you make things, or your creative process?
J: I think it affects everybody at this point. But I, specifically, weaponise the internal purpose. I recognised the insanity of it early on, so I never took it seriously. I let other people take me seriously while not being serious. That’s my thing when I’m interacting with the internet. It’s something that looms over everybody now because it’s impossible to escape. It’s something you can’t fully pay attention to and base everything off, but you can’t ignore it either. It’s inevitable. The internet’s part of what we do. We use it for everything at this point, so it’s going to affect our daily lives.
KA: I like how you embrace it in your entire creative approach, if that makes sense – from the way you communicate with the audience to you specifically. The way the music sounds and feels nostalgic, but also super digital. That shit is so strange to me. I think it’s really cool. Do you think you’ll be chasing that energy for the rest of your career? Or might you go off and do super analogue shit?
J: I’ll see if I get in a mode, you know? I tour a lot, so it breaks things up. When I’m just chilling and not touring as much, my brainwaves change. If I get in a mode, I can do whatever. I get bored and start doing stuff for the sake of it. One day, yeah – I’ll switch it up and do something else, do this and that. But it’ll be as I see it.
KA: It’s the technical thing we were talking about. I feel like you always switch it up, but the texture is so you and consistent, which I think is special. Do you think I’ve been doing that too, if that makes sense?
J: I think you’ve been doing that before people even knew what it was. For example – I brought this up to you a while ago – a long time ago, you streamed yourself 24 hours straight. Nowadays, that’s how most N***** make money, but at the time, it was just something you were doing. When I saw it back then, I thought, “This guy is crazy.” I would never have thought to do that. It was so wild. I think you were doing it before I even knew what it meant to do something on the internet. You already knew how to weaponise it and use it for yourself, and you did it in a different way.
KA: Ah, thank you.
J: And musically, with this album, you’re a texture guy too. Your stuff has these themes that almost make you seem like a Bob Dylan of rap. That’s where I see you fitting. Even when you were talking just now, I wanted people to feel it – you have this energy of a ‘60s soul singer, or something. Like Quincy Jones or something like that. That’s how I see you. You’re an innovator, a real-life innovator.
KA: I really appreciate that so much, thank you.
J: I was going to say – speaking of this album and innovators – how was it working with Quadeca?
KA: Everything you said about me – that’s exactly how I feel about him.
J: [Laughs] Same.
KA: And Danny [Brown] too. It’s that kind of frequency – that’s what he’s on. He just knows what the album is missing, sonically – he’d tell you in two seconds. And he listens and is just wild. And the fact that you walk into the room and he’s like, “Oh my god, [JPEGMAFIA’s] getting on my beat,” he respects the culture so much. I love that too.
J: I’m always kind of confused, almost shocked like, “Oh shit, you feel that way about me?” It’s a great feeling when you meet these younger cats, and they talk to me like that. I’m just like, “For real?”
KA: [Laughs] I feel the same way!
J: But I appreciate it. When I came and heard that beat for “NOLA” – well, what eventually became “NOLA” – the first thing I said was, “This is crazy.” As soon as I heard it, I was like, this speaks to me in a way it doesn’t for other people. I knew exactly what I would rap on it. So I sat there for an hour and wrote the verse. As soon as I heard that beat, I was like, “Who or what made this beat?” And when I realised it was Quadeca and I met him, I was like, “This is very, very cool.” He’s a very cool guy, extremely talented – one of the most talented of this generation.
KA: One thousand per cent. I don’t know how he thought to make that track. And, well, how did you land in that pocket – the bounce? I was barely in the song; I was trying a bunch of things, and then I landed there. I don’t know how you got into that pocket.
J: Weird beats just speak to me. Also, I call it being out of practice. At that time, I was a little out of practice. By that, I mean I wasn’t making an album or working on music – I was just a normal person. Well, I was kinda in practice; I was writing a little, but I was touring so much that I didn’t have much time. I landed there because I was trying to pretend I was in practice – I was like, “Let me brush it off.” After that, I remember I started working a bit more because I was really inspired. I was like, “I’ve got to dust this shit off.” You know? I don’t know if that happens to you – periods where you’re like, “I just can’t right now.”
KA: Exactly. That was me when I first got to Texas. I was feeling lost – a bit bored and shit. Oh, I was going to ask, how was tour?
J: Governors Ball was very interesting. The crowd was really cool and loud. Lollapalooza was just recently, and I love that show – that was really fun. I’ve been touring with a live band and trying to incorporate more stuff like that. Playing with Linkin Park has really opened my eyes, you know? Playing to five or six thousand people is one thing, but playing to fifty thousand, thirty thousand people, is a whole other shit. You know?
KA: Did you think it was hard to control the crowd on a scale that size?
J: Well, yeah. The crowd’s not only there for you, really. So you’re fighting a battle, and there’s a lot of them. I don’t make music that’s palatable to all ages and everyone, so I had to go and win the audience every night. It changes the way you think about what can work with audiences. When I was with Linkin Park, it was thirty thousand people consistently at night. In an intimate setting you can see what works, but with that many people you can’t even understand what everyone is saying.
KA: Last summer I was touring with this band, Glass Animals, and it was so opposite to what I’m used to, demographic-wise. The audience was really hard to figure out – what songs to play. I kept changing them every night.
J: You’ve got to give it some thought, man.
KA: Yeah, exactly.
J: The first night I went out for the Linkin Park shit, I was like, “Okay, this works. That doesn’t work.” I’d say I was adjusting for two nights, and then after that I was like, “Okay, I’ve figured it out. I’ve got it.” And I only had to do thirty minutes, and I’m used to an hour-and-thirty-minute set, so that shit was a walk in the park for me. But, yeah, I get what you’re saying – you have to figure out how to translate yourself to this audience. What’s up with that burner account [Clifford73]? Is that you?
KA: [Laughs] Yeah, that’s me. It’s funny ’cause someone told me, “It looks like a fan page,” and I kinda fuck with that too. I like a confusing [mayhem]. It’s also an easier way for me to just throw things up and not overthink it. I like the freedom I feel – like early Instagram days.
J: I used to post anything on Instagram, but I started to think about how I’m perceived and that shit. I have a burner account too, but it’s private – so nobody can see it.
KA: You think you’ll ever make it public? For your fans?
J: I think one day I will, but not right now. I enjoy the privacy, ’cause I can post literally whatever I want. And it’s not something anyone needs to overthink – it’s just a free thought, you know? I like how many artists have burner accounts. It’s not a bunch, but it’s interesting.
KA: Some people have burner Spotify accounts – like burner YouTube pages and shit.
J: Bro, [laughs] I got a burner Spotify account.
KA: [Laughs] You do? I like that.What you said before, that the internet affected regional rap – that kind of stuff feels underground to me. Which is great.
J: Being on a burner is underground as fuck. When I see you posting on that burner, I’m like, “Is this him? What is this? Who is this?”
KA: It’s mixtape-y.
J: It’s very mixtape-y. What is the weirdest DM you’ve got since your last drop?
KA: Damn. That’s a good question.
J: You respond to the DMs still?
KA: Yeah, usually. The first interview we did for this album cycle was me DM’ing Zach Sang – ’cause I saw that PinkPantheress did it and I was like, “Oh, that’s kind of tight.” I liked the vibe of the show, so I was like, “Yo, can you listen to this album? And if you like it, would you be down to do a little interview?” I love that energy – reaching out. I DM’d you like a billion times, I was like, “Hello? Hello?”
J: [Laughs] Yo, listen bro, I’ve been on tour.
KA: No, I know, obviously. I’ve just been on the ’gram DM’ing people.
J: I’ve got no manager. So, you know what I’m saying?
KA: I love that about you – you’re living in the wild.
J: [Laughs] Yeah, I’m really out here. Cutting percentages and just in the wild. No fucks at all. I was just going to say, my bad for not responding. Sometimes I’m just not on my phone. That’s why I sometimes don’t respond to the DMs. To be fair, it’s not just you – when I’m not on my phone, I come back and everyone is upset. They’re like, “Where the fuck were you at, bro?”
KA: I’m not upset ’cause I know you.
J: I appreciate it. Usually, my music industry homies understand, but regular people don’t get this lifestyle, so they’re like, “What the fuck are you doing?” And I’m like, “Bro, I’ve been touring for four months. I need a day to sit here and stare at a wall and not think for a second.” But yeah, I apologise for not responding. I’m very not-responding when I need to recover, that’s all.
KA: I’m actually the worst at it. With real-life stuff, I’ve gotten into some bad arguments with people about it. I feel like a bad person sometimes. But to answer your question, I don’t know the craziest DM I’ve got.
J: Yeah, I feel you. Bro, I don’t even look at my DMs anymore. There’s the most crazy shit in there. Shit that doesn’t even make sense in my DMs now.
KA: What kind of stuff?
J: It’s a mix of praise. But you know, when you get to a certain point, it’s like…if you skip past the praise when you’re online, it almost doesn’t register anymore. You’ve got to be in a good-arse mood to see someone praise you online and be like, “That made me feel great today.” It’s nothing against them, it’s just that it gets to a point.
KA: Yeah, I relate.
J: Now, what’s a question you wish interviewers would stop asking you? And what’s one you wish they’d start? I could think of a few for myself.
KA: [Laughs] What’s yours?
J: I wish interviewers were a bit more hostile with me, to be honest. You know, like old The Breakfast Club interviews?
KA: That’s why I wanted to do the Zach Sang show. He somehow has that tone. I miss that era of journalism. The VH1 [originally known as Video Hits One] type of journalism? Give me that. I wish it would feel a bit more gossipy, and less like people scared of asking awkward questions. I wish it was awkward the entire time. Like what we’re doing right now – it’s a bit weird, but I like the energy.
J: It’s like, even though we don’t talk every day, we do this thing. We have the same job, essentially. So we can relate on that front. And that job, I know personally, desolates the fuck out of me. Sometimes I’m just like, “Where the fuck am I at?”
KA: Exactly.
J: We speak the same language, and it’s a language a lot of people around us don’t understand. It’s like I’m speaking Spanish to you around a bunch of English motherfuckers. For me in 2025, I don’t want to say I’m all about entertainment going forward, but let’s put it this way: if you’re not being at least a little bit entertaining, what are you doing? Because it’s 2025, and everything is disposable. We have everything at our fingertips, so it’s like, “Entertain me!”
KA: Yeah, that’s how I feel.
J: That’s why I get busy like that, on [X] and shit. Because why wouldn’t I be like this? Am I supposed to be nice around here?
KA: [Laughs] I love how you are online though.
J: Bro, when I met Lil Tecca, he went straight up to me and was like, “Bro, keep doing that shit. I love it.” Alright, so let me ask – the people on the album, how did you choose them? Or was it, like you said before, just homies hanging out? ’Cause I know you reached out to me. Did you do that with a bunch of other artists as well?
KA: It excited me to make mixtape-y underground stuff while working with the kings of the online underground. But I also wanted to mix in pop star rappers, in my eyes. On top of that, going back home and seeing the people I grew up with still taking it to their studios, working on their own careers, chasing the dream every day – it made me think, what if I put all of this together to make something that feels like Blush? Something that captures what I saw in my head. The vision really was just like, who can – and Quadeca helped me with this a lot – actually add to this Texas pop sound I’m trying to do. I’m always going to have a bit of pop and shit, but I wanted it to feel a bit crunchier this time around. I also wanted it to feel like, “Why is this person on this? Who’s this random person?” And I’d say I grew up with them since I was fourteen, so this feels more like I get it now. I get the vision. It was really intentional. It feels random on purpose. But I was definitely dense with what I wanted to do sonically and even lyrically. It’s kind of vague in some songs, but it’s some sort of a break-up album. I don’t mean romantically, but in the way of getting older and losing friends – from Brockhampton to losing another crew of people I met after Brockhampton who I think are my family. It also felt like I didn’t know where my voice was supposed to fit in within the music industry – not that I even care – but there was some insecurity while I was working on it. And as soon as I put it out, I was like, “Oh, just do the thing that only you can do,” which is why I love that Blush is a collaborative project, because I know this is my strength. Yeah, that was a long answer, but…
J: No, I get you. It’s like controlled chaos. You knew what you were doing, and you wanted it to sound like this. I guess what you’re saying is it’s like divorcing from an era.
KA: Yeah.
J: It’s a break-up from that part of your life.
KA: It’s starting over and feeling refreshed, really.
J: I think every rapper, every artist who does art, has different eras. Peaks and valleys, highs and lows. So I think it’s beautiful. You’re a deep thinker – to make an album with that in mind and let that feeling wash over all of Blush. You know? ’Cause that’s such a specific feeling to hold on to and find a way to project it. It’s very interesting and emotionally intelligent, I guess.
KA: Ah, thank you. Are you doing any therapy?
J: No, I used to, but I found that therapy – personally for me – I’ve gone so far in life without therapy, it doesn’t hit me now. I didn’t do therapy until I was thirty, so by that time I was a grown adult. I already had my patterns and habits. I’m already who I am. I don’t think talking to somebody is really going to…For me, therapy is being on my own, turning my phone off, and thinking. If I do that for a month – trust me, I’ll be fine. I don’t need therapy.
KA: Yeah, I get that. I started, but it was sort of hardcore too – I was doing it five days a week.
J: Damn. Okay.
KA: [Laughs] I saw someone doing it, and I was like, let me try that. He seems healed. And I learned too much about myself – it was scary.
J: Wow, so hold on. When I did therapy, the only reason I didn’t continue heavily was because it wasn’t enough. I can’t do one hour a week. It almost caused me anxiety to wait. I told my therapist that. I was like, “Can we do two hours? Three hours? Multiple times a week?” I didn’t know you could do it like that. So you did it five days a week?
KA: Yeah. She taught me so much about myself. But I’m an extremist in that way. If I’m gonna do it, it’s going to be hardcore.
J: Yeah, you commit to it.
KA: Yeah, [laughs] too hard sometimes.
J: I’m envious. I didn’t even know you could do that. I should have kept going. Shit, that’s a friend.
KA: Yeah, [laughs] it’s less lonely.
J: I was going to say, for some people it works, and I don’t discourage anybody from doing it. Just for me, I didn’t have access to it when I was younger, so I didn’t have any interest when I was older. So when I tried, I was like, “Ah, I’m good.” But I see it works wonders for people, so yeah. I think if I had it five days a week, it would have made a big difference.
KA: Yeah, what you said about the anxiety of doing it once a week – it’s true.
J: It sucks. It’s like you have to hurry up and get all your trauma out in one hour. It feels competitive, like yapping or something. It felt like I was racing against the clock. What’s the most spontaneous decision you’ve made during the making of Blush?
KA: Honestly, packing up my Jeep in Laurel Canyon and just driving from California to Texas, seeing a friend…
J: You drove?
KA: Yeah. I started driving late in life too. I saw it as a scary thing. So, yeah, this was the most spontaneous decision I’ve made since Brockhampton – [when I moved from] Texas to California – it felt like a reset, and then doing it again by going back. I just had to sit alone and record myself. In Brockhampton, I never recorded myself; I had my engineer, my man. So I felt like a kid again. I hadn’t done that in so long – production and stuff. It brought something out of me that felt like it had been missing from my life. It was something I’d been thinking about for months, like, “Should I go back home?” And then I was like, let me pack my shit up and leave. I still don’t have a house; I’ve been at Airbnbs and staying with homies. I like this pace right now for my creativity.
J: So you’re homeless right now? [Laughs] Let’s get it. I envy you, man – I couldn’t do it.
KA: I just need that freedom right now. I was too dialled in.
J: Do you see yourself ever coming back to LA?
KA: Yeah. I love LA. Texas is just good for my creativity right now. My imagination feels a bit more enhanced.
J: On your burner account, you post a lot of albums, kinda randomly. Sometimes memed, and sometimes albums I haven’t seen in years. Personal question – were these albums ones you were listening to during the sessions? Did they affect you, or any of the music on Blush? ’Cause I feel like they remind me of some of the stuff I heard, and even here you say that you compare Blush to Dr. Dre’s Aftermath. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention that album in my life.
KA: [Laughs] Well, he considers that low-key a transitional phase before he made The Chronic, and I relate to that.
J: The Chronic 2001?
KA: No, The Chronic.
J: You relate to that?
KA: Yeah, I relate to that transitional phase – figuring it out, leaving the group, wondering if I trust the people I’m around and making music with… I don’t know, just that feeling. I fully relate to it. I also like his approach to making albums because it says “group album,” but it’s fully his. Even on tracks where his name isn’t there, he put it all together.
J: That’s why I asked if it was The Chronic 2001, because I’ve seen you reference it before. Do you think it influenced you as well? That’s one of the greatest hip-hop albums ever, and the best-mixed album of all time.
KA: Yes, definitely. I agree.
J: You can hear every sound, crisp and clear in that motherfucker.
KA: I love that you love the album. That’s, like, my favourite album of all time. And just being introduced to superstars like Eminem – it felt like a cartoon or a superhero movie.
J: Yeah, like The Avengers or some shit. I guess, in a way, that’s how this album feels?
KA: Yeah. Having you, Dominic Fike… that’s the feeling I was chasing, really. And all the textures, the discovery aspect that I’m into – mixing that, it felt like a game.
J: It’s a beautiful thing.
KA: Thank you.
J: Hm, so you review music now?
KA: Well, I haven’t written a review yet. In school, the only class I cared about was journalism – I had a really cool teacher. I used to write album reviews around 2010–2011, and I was like, “I want to tap back into that side of my brain.” But I haven’t had the time to write a proper review myself. So if any journalists out there want a job, you know, and want to write about a movie or something, let’s put it on the site – I’ll pay you, and we’ll try to build something together. That’s the goal with Clifford73: a more fun version of Pitchfork.
J: That’s fucking great. I’m in support of this completely. I think it’s a good idea. In this environment right now, it’s really cool of you to give people who want to write a platform.
KA: There’s a lot of writers out there who really give a fuck about it.
J: Let me do a review, yo.
KA: Please, that would be fire.
J: Like a retro review or some shit.
KA: People would give a fuck.
J: You don’t have to pay me or anything – I just want to participate. It makes me excited.
KA: It’s open; anyone can contribute.
J: That’s tight, man. You always have your finger on the pulse of things. I appreciate that. I appreciate you allowing me to participate on this album. I appreciate this album. I think it’s one of the best albums this year. I’m tapping in and out of mainstream consciousness right now, so when I tap back in and listen to shit like Blush over and over, I was like – even outside my song – I love the album in general. The song with Dominic Fike, I love that song so much. There’s amazing shit in there. I think you’ve solidified your place as one of the biggest innovators in rap. I don’t really know when people will start speaking about you that way, but maybe in due time it will come. Maybe they already are, and I’m just ignorant. But I’d like to see more of it. Like I said, even going back to you streaming for 24 hours. You’ve always been extremely early on shit that people jump on way later. Your innovation is still there and is still one of your biggest, most beautiful, amazing qualities. You are a true, genuine innovator in the way you think and execute things. So I just appreciate you letting me be part of your shit, and thank you for letting me be part of this.
KA: This is the best compliment ever, the best praise – so sweet. It’s nice to hear, because sometimes I’ll go crazy. Thank you. I feel the exact same way about you. Appreciate you.
J: I appreciate you too, man.
Pre-order Wonderland’s 20th Anniversary Issue here.
Photography by Emma Drew Berson
Styling by Valeria Semushina
Interview by JPEGMAFIA
Words by Ella Bardsley
Grooming by Ayae Yamamoto at Exclusive Artists using Typology
Photography Assistant Lexi Wimberly
Fashion Assistant Lilia Darii
Videography by Jordan Kirk
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Artist. Originator. Audio architect. Curator. Cult-leader? However you try to define him, Kevin Abstract remains an enigma. Here, he and JPEGMAFIA cut the bullshit, talking the way they make music: no holds barred.
Kevin Abstract has never played it straight. As a teenager in Texas, he pulled Brockhampton out of internet message boards and turned it into one of the most talked-about collectives of the last decade – a rap boyband that made disruption its engine. When the group dissolved nearly three years ago, the mythology was set: the kid from forums who built a band that stormed the charts. He’d already tested life outside the group with projects like MTV1987, American Boyfriend, and Arizona Baby. But in 2024, amidst heartbreak, addiction, and a move back home to find himself, the question became how to sketch out a new blueprint for what music – and community – could look like next.
His answer is Blush. Not a band in the traditional sense, not just a solo record either, but a shape-shifting collective where the cast is always in flux: Dominic Fike, Love Spells, Danny Brown, JPEGMAFIA, full-scale production from Quadeca, and a constellation of Houston locals orbit in and out. With Blush, Abstract isn’t just out for himself; he’s building a musical Noah’s Ark, a vessel big enough to carry the next wave of misfits and visionaries with him. If Brockhampton was about detonating a boyband from the inside, Blush is about expanding the frame – building a universe that can stretch, grow, and contract. It’s “Texas Pop,” as he calls it: an homage and a soundtrack to the place he calls home.
To talk it all through, Abstract sits down with JPEGMAFIA, one of Blush’s key co-conspirators and a kindred provocateur who’s made a career out of ignoring genre’s guardrails. What follows is a conversation about two artists who share the same M.O.. “We speak the same language, and it’s a language a lot of people around us don’t understand,” JPEGMAFIA tells Kevin. “It’s like I’m speaking Spanish to you around a bunch of English motherfuckers.”
So we got out of the way and let them talk – at length, because some conversations aren’t meant to be cut short.
Kevin Abstract: Thanks for doing this!
JPEGMAFIA: No problem, man, I’m just chilling. Just got off tour. Been working non-stop. I’m in that mode – [that] part of my album where I don’t know what it sounds like yet. It’s a very vulnerable, insecure process.
KA: Is it a lot of producing right now, or vocals, or a mix of both?
J: Both. I mean, this isn’t about my shit, but the only theme I have is steroids. I’ve been watching [basketball legend] Barry Bonds’ games, [baseball star] Marc McGwire’s games…I just want to know what it looks like to be juiced. That’s the theme for everything I’m doing: just over the top.
KA: Do you think that will change your aesthetic? What about the visuals? Will you try to get big in the gym or some shit?
J: [Laughs] No, it’s not going to be literal steroids. It’s just a theme in private, to get a desired goal.
KA: You don’t have to say it yet, but do you have a title in mind?
J: No, nothing right now. Just a bunch of music and a bunch of raps, that’s it. But it’s got a lot of that D’Angelo vibe you used to play. Hm…what did you used to do? You had, like…prints in the studio or something. It was like, “If we’re gonna make a great album, we’ve got to listen to a great album.”
KA: Exactly.
J: But how are you, man? How have you been since the album dropped?
KA: I’ve been pretty happy. Happier than I was with the last album cycle. I think it’s because I’m not with Sony anymore; I’m with Virgin Records, so I have more freedom to actually reset. And I’m not living in California anymore; I’m living in Texas. I feel like my life slowed down in the way I needed it to, for me to be more creative, honestly.
J: So your mindset changed moving back to [your hometown] Texas – has everything been more relaxed?
KA: Yeah, it’s making it easier to make things.
J: That’s imperative to making music. For me, at least, I prefer to be in a good mood, because the actual work is technical and you have to sit down in the weeds of it, you know? But I was going to ask – I have a group, and the group is a group of N***** that I just know. What is Blush exactly? Is that the same thing, or is it not, like, a group?
KA: It’s the same thing, ‘cause I feel like you have a group, but your group isn’t a proper touring band, right?
J: Yeah.
KA: Exactly, that’s pretty much what Blush is. It’s been so hard to answer that question. I’m always going to be making a bunch of music with a bunch of different people, so I just decided to put a label on it. My goal was to have Brockhampton be a band, rap group, boyband, whatever. But that was supposed to be a band, whereas this is more or less just me and homies that I grew up with, that are just kinda helping me, like, figure out whatever sound I’m into at the time. And, it’s funny – the thing you said about D’Angelo listening and the prints. When we came back here, I was listening to a bunch of Zero and just, like, Texas shit. Just shit that I remember listening to as a kid. And Blush doesn’t sound like that, but there’s just this feeling in some of the melodies and the raps that remind me of that era of music.
J: Before I say what I’m going to say next, let me point out something I find interesting. Artists from Texas – all of y’all, eventually – it’s like Texas calls you back or something. All artists from Texas eventually know, “I’ve got to get my Texas shit out.” Solange did that album when she was like, “Yo, I’ve just got to get my Texas shit out.” I know artists personally from Texas who’d be like, “It’s time to go back to Texas real quick.”
KA: [Laughs] Yeah, that is interesting.
J: I’m telling you. Literally every artist I know from Texas, no matter what type of music they do, eventually they’re like, “You know what? It’s time to go back.” [Laughs] I always figured you as some kind of cult leader or something. I don’t really know.
KA: [Laughs] Is that bad?
J: [Laughs] No! To me, that’s good. Cult leaders are a good thing to me. It’s somebody who’s charismatic and has a leader quality in them – somebody that facilitates.
KA: Ah, thank you.
J: That’s somebody I’ve always seen you as. Every time I’ve seen you, you’re in that position – facilitating, or controlling everything. Even when I saw you last time, to record this verse for “NOLA” on this album, it was the same thing: you had the whole place, you and all your friends, just working shit out. So yeah, it’s interesting that you think of this as just, like, N***** you hang around with or anything like that. I’ve seen you describe it as different things, but it’s interesting hearing it from your mouth. Because, for me, you always kinda seem like the de facto leader on whatever the fuck is going on. Anytime I see you, you seem like the nucleus of shit. But the way you described it is like, “We’re just hanging out.”
KA: That’s because I feel like that’s how you get the best work. At least for me, I’m leaning into the best version of myself if it starts with friendship and love – no ego. I’ve always been obsessed with this collaborative spirit. There are people on the songs who aren’t musicians, but they’re just having fun in the studio. That’s always been my vision, I guess.
J: It’s interesting, the perspective on it. It’s funny, ’cause for me, I do it completely differently. I run my shit like a [brigade]. When I have N***** coming, I’m like, “Do this. Do that.” The roles are extremely defined. But my guys aren’t artists in the conventional way – they’re just my homies, so whatever I have them doing, whereas you’re like, “Nah, I’m not the leader, I’m just chilling. We’re all just chilling.” When I go, I’m that motherfucker: “I’m the boss, we’re at work.”
KA: Well, that happens. It depends. I start off with a chilling thing, and then I eventually start to kick people out, I guess. [Laughs] Then it becomes a sort of [brigade]. But it’s always like summer camp, which I love creatively because it helps me feel free in the studio. I’m always the last one to record. That’s just what happens.
J: There’s something I was thinking: do you think collectives, in the traditional sense, still work in hip-hop, or are they still a thing? Since [Brockhampton] stopped, did that also stop being a thing?
KA: I actually haven’t seen a hip-hop group get as big as we got since. But I think someone just has to do something new, something different – and that sounds like the hardest thing to do. It’s difficult, but I’m sure it’s possible. I think people are missing that feeling of seeing a bunch of homies making stuff together on stage, rapping their favourite songs. I think that feeling is missing. I don’t really know if it’s happening. I hope I’m not being disrespectful to anyone in hip-hop right now. But I can’t think of any group, really, honestly.
J: I agree –there’s definitely room for it, but it doesn’t happen as much anymore. The internet has changed the way we consume rap – or really, any kind of music. It’s kind of broken down the idea of regional rap, since everything feels centralised now. I don’t know exactly why, but I think the internet plays a big role. Kids today are always in collectives, working in groups. They rarely do things on their own – it’s all about doing it with friends. That feels inevitable, just because there are so many artists out there.
At the same time, our attention spans are shorter. Everyone’s just chasing whatever the internet is paying attention to at the moment.
KA: Does that affect the way you make things, or your creative process?
J: I think it affects everybody at this point. But I, specifically, weaponise the internal purpose. I recognised the insanity of it early on, so I never took it seriously. I let other people take me seriously while not being serious. That’s my thing when I’m interacting with the internet. It’s something that looms over everybody now because it’s impossible to escape. It’s something you can’t fully pay attention to and base everything off, but you can’t ignore it either. It’s inevitable. The internet’s part of what we do. We use it for everything at this point, so it’s going to affect our daily lives.
KA: I like how you embrace it in your entire creative approach, if that makes sense – from the way you communicate with the audience to you specifically. The way the music sounds and feels nostalgic, but also super digital. That shit is so strange to me. I think it’s really cool. Do you think you’ll be chasing that energy for the rest of your career? Or might you go off and do super analogue shit?
J: I’ll see if I get in a mode, you know? I tour a lot, so it breaks things up. When I’m just chilling and not touring as much, my brainwaves change. If I get in a mode, I can do whatever. I get bored and start doing stuff for the sake of it. One day, yeah – I’ll switch it up and do something else, do this and that. But it’ll be as I see it.
KA: It’s the technical thing we were talking about. I feel like you always switch it up, but the texture is so you and consistent, which I think is special. Do you think I’ve been doing that too, if that makes sense?
J: I think you’ve been doing that before people even knew what it was. For example – I brought this up to you a while ago – a long time ago, you streamed yourself 24 hours straight. Nowadays, that’s how most N***** make money, but at the time, it was just something you were doing. When I saw it back then, I thought, “This guy is crazy.” I would never have thought to do that. It was so wild. I think you were doing it before I even knew what it meant to do something on the internet. You already knew how to weaponise it and use it for yourself, and you did it in a different way.
KA: Ah, thank you.
J: And musically, with this album, you’re a texture guy too. Your stuff has these themes that almost make you seem like a Bob Dylan of rap. That’s where I see you fitting. Even when you were talking just now, I wanted people to feel it – you have this energy of a ‘60s soul singer, or something. Like Quincy Jones or something like that. That’s how I see you. You’re an innovator, a real-life innovator.
KA: I really appreciate that so much, thank you.
J: I was going to say – speaking of this album and innovators – how was it working with Quadeca?
KA: Everything you said about me – that’s exactly how I feel about him.
J: [Laughs] Same.
KA: And Danny [Brown] too. It’s that kind of frequency – that’s what he’s on. He just knows what the album is missing, sonically – he’d tell you in two seconds. And he listens and is just wild. And the fact that you walk into the room and he’s like, “Oh my god, [JPEGMAFIA’s] getting on my beat,” he respects the culture so much. I love that too.
J: I’m always kind of confused, almost shocked like, “Oh shit, you feel that way about me?” It’s a great feeling when you meet these younger cats, and they talk to me like that. I’m just like, “For real?”
KA: [Laughs] I feel the same way!
J: But I appreciate it. When I came and heard that beat for “NOLA” – well, what eventually became “NOLA” – the first thing I said was, “This is crazy.” As soon as I heard it, I was like, this speaks to me in a way it doesn’t for other people. I knew exactly what I would rap on it. So I sat there for an hour and wrote the verse. As soon as I heard that beat, I was like, “Who or what made this beat?” And when I realised it was Quadeca and I met him, I was like, “This is very, very cool.” He’s a very cool guy, extremely talented – one of the most talented of this generation.
KA: One thousand per cent. I don’t know how he thought to make that track. And, well, how did you land in that pocket – the bounce? I was barely in the song; I was trying a bunch of things, and then I landed there. I don’t know how you got into that pocket.
J: Weird beats just speak to me. Also, I call it being out of practice. At that time, I was a little out of practice. By that, I mean I wasn’t making an album or working on music – I was just a normal person. Well, I was kinda in practice; I was writing a little, but I was touring so much that I didn’t have much time. I landed there because I was trying to pretend I was in practice – I was like, “Let me brush it off.” After that, I remember I started working a bit more because I was really inspired. I was like, “I’ve got to dust this shit off.” You know? I don’t know if that happens to you – periods where you’re like, “I just can’t right now.”
KA: Exactly. That was me when I first got to Texas. I was feeling lost – a bit bored and shit. Oh, I was going to ask, how was tour?
J: Governors Ball was very interesting. The crowd was really cool and loud. Lollapalooza was just recently, and I love that show – that was really fun. I’ve been touring with a live band and trying to incorporate more stuff like that. Playing with Linkin Park has really opened my eyes, you know? Playing to five or six thousand people is one thing, but playing to fifty thousand, thirty thousand people, is a whole other shit. You know?
KA: Did you think it was hard to control the crowd on a scale that size?
J: Well, yeah. The crowd’s not only there for you, really. So you’re fighting a battle, and there’s a lot of them. I don’t make music that’s palatable to all ages and everyone, so I had to go and win the audience every night. It changes the way you think about what can work with audiences. When I was with Linkin Park, it was thirty thousand people consistently at night. In an intimate setting you can see what works, but with that many people you can’t even understand what everyone is saying.
KA: Last summer I was touring with this band, Glass Animals, and it was so opposite to what I’m used to, demographic-wise. The audience was really hard to figure out – what songs to play. I kept changing them every night.
J: You’ve got to give it some thought, man.
KA: Yeah, exactly.
J: The first night I went out for the Linkin Park shit, I was like, “Okay, this works. That doesn’t work.” I’d say I was adjusting for two nights, and then after that I was like, “Okay, I’ve figured it out. I’ve got it.” And I only had to do thirty minutes, and I’m used to an hour-and-thirty-minute set, so that shit was a walk in the park for me. But, yeah, I get what you’re saying – you have to figure out how to translate yourself to this audience. What’s up with that burner account [Clifford73]? Is that you?
KA: [Laughs] Yeah, that’s me. It’s funny ’cause someone told me, “It looks like a fan page,” and I kinda fuck with that too. I like a confusing [mayhem]. It’s also an easier way for me to just throw things up and not overthink it. I like the freedom I feel – like early Instagram days.
J: I used to post anything on Instagram, but I started to think about how I’m perceived and that shit. I have a burner account too, but it’s private – so nobody can see it.
KA: You think you’ll ever make it public? For your fans?
J: I think one day I will, but not right now. I enjoy the privacy, ’cause I can post literally whatever I want. And it’s not something anyone needs to overthink – it’s just a free thought, you know? I like how many artists have burner accounts. It’s not a bunch, but it’s interesting.
KA: Some people have burner Spotify accounts – like burner YouTube pages and shit.
J: Bro, [laughs] I got a burner Spotify account.
KA: [Laughs] You do? I like that.What you said before, that the internet affected regional rap – that kind of stuff feels underground to me. Which is great.
J: Being on a burner is underground as fuck. When I see you posting on that burner, I’m like, “Is this him? What is this? Who is this?”
KA: It’s mixtape-y.
J: It’s very mixtape-y. What is the weirdest DM you’ve got since your last drop?
KA: Damn. That’s a good question.
J: You respond to the DMs still?
KA: Yeah, usually. The first interview we did for this album cycle was me DM’ing Zach Sang – ’cause I saw that PinkPantheress did it and I was like, “Oh, that’s kind of tight.” I liked the vibe of the show, so I was like, “Yo, can you listen to this album? And if you like it, would you be down to do a little interview?” I love that energy – reaching out. I DM’d you like a billion times, I was like, “Hello? Hello?”
J: [Laughs] Yo, listen bro, I’ve been on tour.
KA: No, I know, obviously. I’ve just been on the ’gram DM’ing people.
J: I’ve got no manager. So, you know what I’m saying?
KA: I love that about you – you’re living in the wild.
J: [Laughs] Yeah, I’m really out here. Cutting percentages and just in the wild. No fucks at all. I was just going to say, my bad for not responding. Sometimes I’m just not on my phone. That’s why I sometimes don’t respond to the DMs. To be fair, it’s not just you – when I’m not on my phone, I come back and everyone is upset. They’re like, “Where the fuck were you at, bro?”
KA: I’m not upset ’cause I know you.
J: I appreciate it. Usually, my music industry homies understand, but regular people don’t get this lifestyle, so they’re like, “What the fuck are you doing?” And I’m like, “Bro, I’ve been touring for four months. I need a day to sit here and stare at a wall and not think for a second.” But yeah, I apologise for not responding. I’m very not-responding when I need to recover, that’s all.
KA: I’m actually the worst at it. With real-life stuff, I’ve gotten into some bad arguments with people about it. I feel like a bad person sometimes. But to answer your question, I don’t know the craziest DM I’ve got.
J: Yeah, I feel you. Bro, I don’t even look at my DMs anymore. There’s the most crazy shit in there. Shit that doesn’t even make sense in my DMs now.
KA: What kind of stuff?
J: It’s a mix of praise. But you know, when you get to a certain point, it’s like…if you skip past the praise when you’re online, it almost doesn’t register anymore. You’ve got to be in a good-arse mood to see someone praise you online and be like, “That made me feel great today.” It’s nothing against them, it’s just that it gets to a point.
KA: Yeah, I relate.
J: Now, what’s a question you wish interviewers would stop asking you? And what’s one you wish they’d start? I could think of a few for myself.
KA: [Laughs] What’s yours?
J: I wish interviewers were a bit more hostile with me, to be honest. You know, like old The Breakfast Club interviews?
KA: That’s why I wanted to do the Zach Sang show. He somehow has that tone. I miss that era of journalism. The VH1 [originally known as Video Hits One] type of journalism? Give me that. I wish it would feel a bit more gossipy, and less like people scared of asking awkward questions. I wish it was awkward the entire time. Like what we’re doing right now – it’s a bit weird, but I like the energy.
J: It’s like, even though we don’t talk every day, we do this thing. We have the same job, essentially. So we can relate on that front. And that job, I know personally, desolates the fuck out of me. Sometimes I’m just like, “Where the fuck am I at?”
KA: Exactly.
J: We speak the same language, and it’s a language a lot of people around us don’t understand. It’s like I’m speaking Spanish to you around a bunch of English motherfuckers. For me in 2025, I don’t want to say I’m all about entertainment going forward, but let’s put it this way: if you’re not being at least a little bit entertaining, what are you doing? Because it’s 2025, and everything is disposable. We have everything at our fingertips, so it’s like, “Entertain me!”
KA: Yeah, that’s how I feel.
J: That’s why I get busy like that, on [X] and shit. Because why wouldn’t I be like this? Am I supposed to be nice around here?
KA: [Laughs] I love how you are online though.
J: Bro, when I met Lil Tecca, he went straight up to me and was like, “Bro, keep doing that shit. I love it.” Alright, so let me ask – the people on the album, how did you choose them? Or was it, like you said before, just homies hanging out? ’Cause I know you reached out to me. Did you do that with a bunch of other artists as well?
KA: It excited me to make mixtape-y underground stuff while working with the kings of the online underground. But I also wanted to mix in pop star rappers, in my eyes. On top of that, going back home and seeing the people I grew up with still taking it to their studios, working on their own careers, chasing the dream every day – it made me think, what if I put all of this together to make something that feels like Blush? Something that captures what I saw in my head. The vision really was just like, who can – and Quadeca helped me with this a lot – actually add to this Texas pop sound I’m trying to do. I’m always going to have a bit of pop and shit, but I wanted it to feel a bit crunchier this time around. I also wanted it to feel like, “Why is this person on this? Who’s this random person?” And I’d say I grew up with them since I was fourteen, so this feels more like I get it now. I get the vision. It was really intentional. It feels random on purpose. But I was definitely dense with what I wanted to do sonically and even lyrically. It’s kind of vague in some songs, but it’s some sort of a break-up album. I don’t mean romantically, but in the way of getting older and losing friends – from Brockhampton to losing another crew of people I met after Brockhampton who I think are my family. It also felt like I didn’t know where my voice was supposed to fit in within the music industry – not that I even care – but there was some insecurity while I was working on it. And as soon as I put it out, I was like, “Oh, just do the thing that only you can do,” which is why I love that Blush is a collaborative project, because I know this is my strength. Yeah, that was a long answer, but…
J: No, I get you. It’s like controlled chaos. You knew what you were doing, and you wanted it to sound like this. I guess what you’re saying is it’s like divorcing from an era.
KA: Yeah.
J: It’s a break-up from that part of your life.
KA: It’s starting over and feeling refreshed, really.
J: I think every rapper, every artist who does art, has different eras. Peaks and valleys, highs and lows. So I think it’s beautiful. You’re a deep thinker – to make an album with that in mind and let that feeling wash over all of Blush. You know? ’Cause that’s such a specific feeling to hold on to and find a way to project it. It’s very interesting and emotionally intelligent, I guess.
KA: Ah, thank you. Are you doing any therapy?
J: No, I used to, but I found that therapy – personally for me – I’ve gone so far in life without therapy, it doesn’t hit me now. I didn’t do therapy until I was thirty, so by that time I was a grown adult. I already had my patterns and habits. I’m already who I am. I don’t think talking to somebody is really going to…For me, therapy is being on my own, turning my phone off, and thinking. If I do that for a month – trust me, I’ll be fine. I don’t need therapy.
KA: Yeah, I get that. I started, but it was sort of hardcore too – I was doing it five days a week.
J: Damn. Okay.
KA: [Laughs] I saw someone doing it, and I was like, let me try that. He seems healed. And I learned too much about myself – it was scary.
J: Wow, so hold on. When I did therapy, the only reason I didn’t continue heavily was because it wasn’t enough. I can’t do one hour a week. It almost caused me anxiety to wait. I told my therapist that. I was like, “Can we do two hours? Three hours? Multiple times a week?” I didn’t know you could do it like that. So you did it five days a week?
KA: Yeah. She taught me so much about myself. But I’m an extremist in that way. If I’m gonna do it, it’s going to be hardcore.
J: Yeah, you commit to it.
KA: Yeah, [laughs] too hard sometimes.
J: I’m envious. I didn’t even know you could do that. I should have kept going. Shit, that’s a friend.
KA: Yeah, [laughs] it’s less lonely.
J: I was going to say, for some people it works, and I don’t discourage anybody from doing it. Just for me, I didn’t have access to it when I was younger, so I didn’t have any interest when I was older. So when I tried, I was like, “Ah, I’m good.” But I see it works wonders for people, so yeah. I think if I had it five days a week, it would have made a big difference.
KA: Yeah, what you said about the anxiety of doing it once a week – it’s true.
J: It sucks. It’s like you have to hurry up and get all your trauma out in one hour. It feels competitive, like yapping or something. It felt like I was racing against the clock. What’s the most spontaneous decision you’ve made during the making of Blush?
KA: Honestly, packing up my Jeep in Laurel Canyon and just driving from California to Texas, seeing a friend…
J: You drove?
KA: Yeah. I started driving late in life too. I saw it as a scary thing. So, yeah, this was the most spontaneous decision I’ve made since Brockhampton – [when I moved from] Texas to California – it felt like a reset, and then doing it again by going back. I just had to sit alone and record myself. In Brockhampton, I never recorded myself; I had my engineer, my man. So I felt like a kid again. I hadn’t done that in so long – production and stuff. It brought something out of me that felt like it had been missing from my life. It was something I’d been thinking about for months, like, “Should I go back home?” And then I was like, let me pack my shit up and leave. I still don’t have a house; I’ve been at Airbnbs and staying with homies. I like this pace right now for my creativity.
J: So you’re homeless right now? [Laughs] Let’s get it. I envy you, man – I couldn’t do it.
KA: I just need that freedom right now. I was too dialled in.
J: Do you see yourself ever coming back to LA?
KA: Yeah. I love LA. Texas is just good for my creativity right now. My imagination feels a bit more enhanced.
J: On your burner account, you post a lot of albums, kinda randomly. Sometimes memed, and sometimes albums I haven’t seen in years. Personal question – were these albums ones you were listening to during the sessions? Did they affect you, or any of the music on Blush? ’Cause I feel like they remind me of some of the stuff I heard, and even here you say that you compare Blush to Dr. Dre’s Aftermath. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention that album in my life.
KA: [Laughs] Well, he considers that low-key a transitional phase before he made The Chronic, and I relate to that.
J: The Chronic 2001?
KA: No, The Chronic.
J: You relate to that?
KA: Yeah, I relate to that transitional phase – figuring it out, leaving the group, wondering if I trust the people I’m around and making music with… I don’t know, just that feeling. I fully relate to it. I also like his approach to making albums because it says “group album,” but it’s fully his. Even on tracks where his name isn’t there, he put it all together.
J: That’s why I asked if it was The Chronic 2001, because I’ve seen you reference it before. Do you think it influenced you as well? That’s one of the greatest hip-hop albums ever, and the best-mixed album of all time.
KA: Yes, definitely. I agree.
J: You can hear every sound, crisp and clear in that motherfucker.
KA: I love that you love the album. That’s, like, my favourite album of all time. And just being introduced to superstars like Eminem – it felt like a cartoon or a superhero movie.
J: Yeah, like The Avengers or some shit. I guess, in a way, that’s how this album feels?
KA: Yeah. Having you, Dominic Fike… that’s the feeling I was chasing, really. And all the textures, the discovery aspect that I’m into – mixing that, it felt like a game.
J: It’s a beautiful thing.
KA: Thank you.
J: Hm, so you review music now?
KA: Well, I haven’t written a review yet. In school, the only class I cared about was journalism – I had a really cool teacher. I used to write album reviews around 2010–2011, and I was like, “I want to tap back into that side of my brain.” But I haven’t had the time to write a proper review myself. So if any journalists out there want a job, you know, and want to write about a movie or something, let’s put it on the site – I’ll pay you, and we’ll try to build something together. That’s the goal with Clifford73: a more fun version of Pitchfork.
J: That’s fucking great. I’m in support of this completely. I think it’s a good idea. In this environment right now, it’s really cool of you to give people who want to write a platform.
KA: There’s a lot of writers out there who really give a fuck about it.
J: Let me do a review, yo.
KA: Please, that would be fire.
J: Like a retro review or some shit.
KA: People would give a fuck.
J: You don’t have to pay me or anything – I just want to participate. It makes me excited.
KA: It’s open; anyone can contribute.
J: That’s tight, man. You always have your finger on the pulse of things. I appreciate that. I appreciate you allowing me to participate on this album. I appreciate this album. I think it’s one of the best albums this year. I’m tapping in and out of mainstream consciousness right now, so when I tap back in and listen to shit like Blush over and over, I was like – even outside my song – I love the album in general. The song with Dominic Fike, I love that song so much. There’s amazing shit in there. I think you’ve solidified your place as one of the biggest innovators in rap. I don’t really know when people will start speaking about you that way, but maybe in due time it will come. Maybe they already are, and I’m just ignorant. But I’d like to see more of it. Like I said, even going back to you streaming for 24 hours. You’ve always been extremely early on shit that people jump on way later. Your innovation is still there and is still one of your biggest, most beautiful, amazing qualities. You are a true, genuine innovator in the way you think and execute things. So I just appreciate you letting me be part of your shit, and thank you for letting me be part of this.
KA: This is the best compliment ever, the best praise – so sweet. It’s nice to hear, because sometimes I’ll go crazy. Thank you. I feel the exact same way about you. Appreciate you.
J: I appreciate you too, man.
Pre-order Wonderland’s 20th Anniversary Issue here.
Photography by Emma Drew Berson
Styling by Valeria Semushina
Interview by JPEGMAFIA
Words by Ella Bardsley
Grooming by Ayae Yamamoto at Exclusive Artists using Typology
Photography Assistant Lexi Wimberly
Fashion Assistant Lilia Darii
Videography by Jordan Kirk
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